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He predicted pandemic related political trouble
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for Donald Trump before the first case of COVID-19
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was even discovered in the United States.
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So what does he see on the political horizon now?
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One-on-one with pollster Frank Luntz
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on this edition of Politicking.
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(upbeat music)
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Welcome the Politicking, I'm Larry King.
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In a tumultuous election-year the United States grapples
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with coast-to-coast protest, a pandemic crisis
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and major economic goals.
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Two-thirds of American voters
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say the country's on the wrong track.
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We'll get prospective now for one of my favorite people,
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one of the Nation's top bolsters,
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political consultant and master of messaging Frank Luntz,
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who joins us from Los Angeles.
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Frank a new CBS news poll finds 67%
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of Americans favor United States is on the wrong track.
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Another poll indicates Americans are more unhappy now
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than they've been in 15 years.
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Does that mean Biden's gonna be elected?
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It's certainly not good news for Donald Trump
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and it certainly demonstrates exactly why the Trump Campaign
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has become so nervous,
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while Trump himself has criticize polling.
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But I would say to the President, if I was sitting in front
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of him right now, don't criticize the numbers,
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understand what's happening out there.
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Donald Trump's job approval ratings is in the low 40s.
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His favorability rating is in the low 40s.
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His numbers had gone up at the very beginning of the virus
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but over the last 90 days they have fallen.
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Why?
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Because of his language, because of his messaging,
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because of his presentation.
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The American people want empathy, they want understanding,
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they want to know that the people in charge care about them.
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It's not just law and order.
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It's not control of the streets or the word domination.
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For the average American they want peace of mind.
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They want a job, they wanna be able to put a little bit
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of money away, they want their politicians
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to get something done and when they look now in Washington
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and the Democrats are not doing that well either, Larry.
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But right now everyone in Washington is getting cursed out
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because they don't know who to trust on COVID-19,
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they don't know who's going to fix the economy
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and they certainly don't know
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who's gonna bring social justice.
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Recently you tweeted that, "In my 35 years of polling,
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"I've never seen opinion shift this fast or deeply.
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How did that happen?
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It happened because we saw it on TV
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and we saw it on the web and it was brought
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to us morning, noon and night.
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We read about it in newspapers.
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Every way that we collect information,
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we realize that we were not the country
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that we thought we were.
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We are still inherently good.
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We are still inherently a just country
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but we have not treated everybody justly.
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Larry, I've gone through an opinion change
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over the last few weeks and last few months
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and I'm not surprised that so many people have said,
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"Enough is enough."
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The question now is, who do you trust to fix it,
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how far are we going to go
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and probably most importantly can we maintain the principles
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of equality and freedom at the same time.
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Because that's what we're based on,
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the chance that everyone has an equal opportunity,
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not necessarily an equal result.
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I don't know if we're ever gonna get there but our society
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is gonna change a lot over the coming months.
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Doesn't Biden represent that more than Trump?
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All the things you just mentioned?
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Actually, in all due candor, Joe Biden
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is one of the most emotional speakers of my lifetime.
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One week ago, I sent around the single best video
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I have ever seen in my life and it's Bobby Kennedy,
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I know you've seen it, four and a half minutes long
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and he talks about the assassination
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of Martin Luther King a few hours earlier.
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And Bobby speaks with such beauty and such warmth
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and such love and understanding and empathy
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and Joe Biden comes from that same school.
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The question, and this is all part of who we choose
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for President, the question is whether Biden
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is the same Joe Biden today
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that he was when he was Vice President four years ago
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or when he was a Candidate for President 12 years ago.
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Because in the end we're not voting
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for someone just on election day,
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we're voting for someone for the next eight years.
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I don't like it when people make fun of his age.
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My mum had dementia and I went through this with her
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and I know how much it upset her
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when people would ask her what's wrong.
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I don't know with Joe Biden.
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It bothers me when some cable news programs make fun
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of him or make light because people forget.
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But the public does want to know is he capable
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at the age of 78, is he capable of four years as President,
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it is a legitimate question.
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But boy, he's got the biggest heart of any Candidate
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who ran this time and he is so empathetic
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and I'm gonna tell you something I've never admitted,
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I had a stroke, I think you know this, five months ago
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and I saw Joe Biden after that struck twice
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and he gave me a hug that was so kind and so warm.
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And he held me up and he talked about me,
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I mean, it stopped the event cold
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and everyone who was there a shake his hand
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and vote for him were pissed off at me
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'cause I'm holding the whole event up.
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But Joe wanted to talk about my health
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and my safety and my condition
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and not many politicians would've done that
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and I'm grateful that he did it.
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He is a good, good man.
He is.
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He made a great speech on Corona virus the other day.
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Great speech.
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Yes.
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But we have the right to ask is this someone
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who will go the distance?
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I've asked it, I think it's a legitimate question.
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Actually, I'm gonna ask you,
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I'm gonna turn the interview round for one second.
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Is it legitimate for us to ask,
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is Joe Biden ready for four years?
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Is that fair?
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I guess it is.
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We've got no choice.
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More with Frank Luntz, right after this.
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(upbeat music)
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How do you explain that the impact in
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that killing in Minneapolis traveled greater
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than the killing of Martin Luther King Jr.?
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There's more talk about that than the other case.
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Explain that?
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'Cause we saw it?
Yes.
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That's gonna be the best question I get probably all week.
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And viewers wanna know that I held up this interview
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for about 20 minutes because I was with members
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of the police here in L.A..
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I wanted to meet them, I wanted to challenge them,
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I wanted to listen and learn from them
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and this is what I do.
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I try to collect information and ideas and opinions
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and experiences for those that we don't normally hear.
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And, Larry, I would suggest I've got a couple of people
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that might be great on your show.
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The reason why this went so wide.
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Number one, is it was on video, it was recorded.
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Number two, is that it was so brutal and so indefensible
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because we saw that this man was not a threat to anyone.
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There's no reason for this.
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Number three, is that we've had crimes like this too often.
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And I know that people talk about the statistics
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of black-on-black murder and how much greater is.
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One crime, one death, one tragedy like this is too many.
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And the black community said, "Enough is enough."
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But I'm gonna give one more answer
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that Black Lives Matter probably doesn't appreciate
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but it is true, the white community said,
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"Enough is enough."
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Back in 1968, Civil Rights was primarily a black issue.
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In 2020, Civil Rights is a black issue,
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a Latino issue, an Asian issue, an Angelo issue.
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And become any of us who's concerned about it today.
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And not just Civil Rights, not just about race
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but also about income and about our social fabric.
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Because of that, we paid so much attention to this
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and frankly it's why changes are gonna come.
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I know Donald Trump 40 years,
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I had no idea he had this lack of empathy.
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How do you explain that?
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He seems to have no empathy.
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So I was very critical in a tweet and I should explain it
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and this is a good show to do it on.
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When I was critical that he used the words law and order,
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he is assuming that we have the same politics as 1968
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and I think you covered this,
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I believe you covered the 68 convention,
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the Democratic Convention is unlike
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anything we have ever seen.
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And, Larry, at some point you're going
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to let me turn the tables on you
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'cause I wanna know your great stories.
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Your viewers wanna know the the things
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that you have experience and those things that stand out.
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But in '68 they had a law and order campaign
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but didn't use those words.
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And Richard Nixon won that election
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because of the so-called silent majority.
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Well if you call them the silent majority,
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they're not silent anymore.
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That Donald Trump doesn't realize
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that you can govern in a strong,
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stable successful way and still use language
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that is warm and kind and empathetic.
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He thinks that you have to communicate tough
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because you have to govern tough
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and I'd say to you, it's exactly the opposite.
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We want to know people who understand us
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and who empathize with us.
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And we don't wanna hear someone
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who talks about dominating the streets.
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And my proof, Larry, of this, is that Trump numbers
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have gone down over the last two weeks.
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Well, he used this week to issue an Executive Order
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to take another dig at the Obama Administration.
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He constantly slams Obama.
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Is that going well for him or not?
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No, I believe that his actual record
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is stronger than what people give him credit for.
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And I believe that he gives the media the ammunition
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to turn his own words against him.
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I really do believe that the economy before COVID
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was the strongest economy of my lifetime.
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We had a 3.5% unemployment rate.
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I was taught in school that the unemployment rate
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for America was 5% and, Larry, you never get it below that.
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And under Donald Trump
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is the lowest it had been in 50 years.
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The lowest unemployment rate for African-Americans,
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for Latinos.
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The greatest wage increases in decades.
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No matter how you measure it, the economy
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before COVID-19 was so strong they got no credit for.
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Why?
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Because he's messaging was undermining his governing.
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And I know that this is a show about substance,
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not about style.
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The Larry-style does matter in politics
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and Trump would take this as such a huge insult
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if you saw it, but it's not.
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It's simply saying to him,
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the reason why you're not getting credit
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for all that you've done, is not just
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because the media doesn't like you,
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it's because what you say isn't likable.
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How you say it isn't likable.
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You were speaking to the 40% that are your core base
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and you are alienating the 40% who are against you
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and the reason why you're losing now,
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doesn't mean you're gonna lose
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but the reason why you're losing now
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is that undecided vote.
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6% of America actually approved of a lot of what you did
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but they don't like how you say it
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and they're gonna vote against you,
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unless you change your message.
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We'll be right back with more Politicking
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with Frank Luntz.
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Don't go away.
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(upbeat music)
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Welcome back to Politicking.
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Continuing the conversation with Frank Luntz,
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pollster, political communications consultant,
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maybe the best in the business.
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He joins me from Los Angeles.
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Things couldn't get worse,
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what do you make him he's trying
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to stop the Bolton book from coming out?
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I know that the President doesn't like criticism.
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He says he doesn't mind it,
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he says that people can say whatever they want
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to say about him but he really does enjoy it.
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I'm not surprised because I think the book
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will reflect badly on the Administration.
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I think that what matters most right now
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is the unemployment rate.
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In fact I can prove it.
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When we ask people, how will you judge the strength
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of the economy, which is how they gonna judge Donald Trump,
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number one is unemployment.
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Number two is the cost-of-living.
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Number three, is your own financial condition
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and least important is the stock market.
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It doesn't matter what people say about Trump,
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we've heard it all before.
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It doesn't matter, to some degree,
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what the media report on Donald Trump,
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we've seen it all before.
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We know what we gonna get from Fox, from CNN, MSNBC
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there are no surprises.
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We know what you're gonna get from books like this.
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What we don't know is whether the economy
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will be heading in the right direction come October of 2020.
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So I'm telling people right now,
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nothing is a better indicator of the election results
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in November then the last unemployment numbers
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that are issued in October.
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If our unemployment is below 10%,
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then Donald Trump has a reasonable shot at being re-elected
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because everybody was predicting
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that it would be 25% or 20% or something awful.
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Let's turn to the pandemic.
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Did he do too little too late?
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So that's a policy question.
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And pollsters should be very careful about policy.
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People wanna know what other people think.
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They don't want us to give prescriptions,
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they don't want us to get into those kind of details.
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But out of respect for you,
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the public thinks that he should've done more.
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And here's the number, to my surprise,
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70% of Americans want to prioritize the health and safety
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of the country and only 28% want to prioritize the economy
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and economic conditions.
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And in terms of opening up or staying closed,
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it's two to one.
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The public would still rather have
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this country open up safely and sensibly
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rather than throwing open the doors right now.
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So I know that a majority of Americans
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do not support the position of the Federal Government
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and frankly majority of Americans
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do who support what their Governor's are doing.
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Officials in Tulsa are asking the President not
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to speak Saturday because of their rise in COVID-19
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that they're having a problem with in Tulsa.
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Do you think he'll listen?
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The last time that a Democrat won Oklahoma,
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I think was Thomas Jefferson.
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I mean it's been decades, it's been centuries.
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Why is your speech, in a State
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that you have no doubt of losing?
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Why is he not going to Pennsylvania or Wisconsin
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or North Carolina?
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North Carolina's almost fully open.
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And North Carolina is a swing State.
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Florida's almost fully open.
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Florida's a swing State.
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So I think that, I would listen to the Governor of Oklahoma
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and what the Governor had to say.
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And I would ask the Governor to put his citizens ahead
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of political gain.
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But if I were, again, there in the Oval Office
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and the President said, "What about this speech?"
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I would say, "Sir, why you going to Oklahoma,
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"when there are other States that are in play?
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"Maybe this isn't the best idea at this moment."
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Maybe he wants to hear the cheering,
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you know how he loves that.
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Yes, but he can hear the cheering in North Carolina,
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he won North Carolina.
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He could hear the cheering in Pennsylvania,
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he can hear the cheering Florida.
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Donald Trump, I can give you a list
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of 20 major metropolitan areas
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that Donald Trump would hear the cheering.
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I just question the priority and if there
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is a health issue right now,
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we know we've got one going on in a few other States,
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if there's a health challenge, into account where you go.
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Why on earth won't he wear a mask?
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Now I get this.
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And I may not agree with it but I understand it.
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He wants to show a sense of security
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that as the President of United States,
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you do set an example and you do communicate,
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either confidence or you communicate fear.
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And once again, Larry, I know where you stand
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and probably you and I are pretty close on this
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but I understand why he's not doing it.
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And I don't know what he does in private.
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We don't know what he does in these meetings.
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We don't know what he does in the on the East Wing.
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But I think there are things
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that are much more important to me.
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I really do care about the morbidity rate
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of this disease and even though we have more diagnoses,
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we got more people who are found to have COVID,
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our hospitals are actually not getting overrun
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and less and less people are dying from it
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so we're learning how to treat it,
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we're learning how to deal with it.
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I'm equally concerned about the economy,
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and how we get back up on our feet
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because you cannot have a successful system at 12
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or 13% unemployment and the injustice that has been suffered
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within the African-American community
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and the rage and our attempt to pull this country together.
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I think that those
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will have a greater impact on the election.
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In fact, I'll be blunt,
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I don't imagine more than 10 people voting
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for or against Donald Trump whether
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or not he wears a mask.
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I do imagine millions of people who are still undecided,
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waiting to see how the economy evolves,
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whether we do have a second wave of the virus
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and whether we can achieve a situation
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of social justice and quiet in this country.
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Frank Luntz is our guest.
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We'll have more with him after this.
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(upbeat music)
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What do you make of his unsteady walk
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at West Point going down that plank?
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It's simple, he had done a press conference a day before
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and he walk out from the Oval Office
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to deliverers in the Rose Garden and he walked fine.
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I don't know how steep those steps were,
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I don't know if those steps were wet.
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I make nothing of it and as you can tell,
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I am no longer really partisan anymore.
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I am no longer taking sides anymore.
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I've lost that and I'm glad to have lost it.
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On those things that he should be held responsible
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for, which is, a lack of empathy.
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Which is, a lack of understanding of fear
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that so many people have, I had it.
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I acknowledged it and the President was very critical
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of a couple reporters and the questions they asked.
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Because he said, "You're just afraid."
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I'm afraid and I admit this.
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And if you want it dismiss me
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because I'm afraid, fine, go ahead.
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But I don't want to criticize him on things
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that either, are undeserved
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00:21:28.250 --> 00:21:32.290
or I feel don't signify anything.
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00:21:32.290 --> 00:21:33.760
And so I don't think he's sick,
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I think that's got nothing to do with it.
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00:21:36.060 --> 00:21:39.660
And there are other things that are much more important.
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00:21:39.660 --> 00:21:41.997
All right, but things as we sum up here,
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00:21:41.997 --> 00:21:45.190
don't look very rosy for the President.
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Correct.
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What is gonna take a miracle to turn it around,
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is he that far behind?
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00:21:51.080 --> 00:21:54.070
It does not take a miracle but it does take Donald Trump.
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This election, he seeks to make it a referendum
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and I understand why.
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Because in the end,
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you've got to include Joe Biden in this equation.
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It is not just voting against Donald Trump,
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you're gonna have to be willing to vote for someone.
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Larry, I'm gonna take you 2004,
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John Kerry should have beaten George Bush,
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but in the end, Kerry made the case against the President,
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but he did not ever make the case for himself.
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And that's why he lost the election.
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In 2016, Hillary Clinton ran the worst campaign,
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probably in modern times, she won the popular vote,
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but she lost the electoral college
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because she wasn't going to the States that matter.
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She was spending her time in Arizona and Nevada.
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Which was foolish.
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And Donald Trump went to where he needed to go.
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And the last thing I'd say about this
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is the debates, because in the end, the debates matter.
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And if I were advising Donald Trump, I would tell him,
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"Debate Joe Biden five times, not three."
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I would challenge him to a debate every single week,
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from the last week of September
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to the first week in November.
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Because, I think that that is where Trump will excel
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and I think that that might be a challenge.
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Joe Biden, when I remember him,
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he was one of the greatest debaters that I have ever seen.
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But he's not as effective now.
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He was a champion.
He was a champion.
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And he spoke from the heart as well from the head.
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He was a perfect combination of intellect and a heartfelt.
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But if I were Trump and I wanted to take the election
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to him and I wanted to be a comparison,
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there is no better way than a debate.
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And I know we're gonna end this interview here,
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but, Larry, I always enjoy these exchanges
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and the idea of having an election without you commentating
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but you gotta give me that chance.
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I wanna ask you about your best interview.
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I wanna know about your worst interview.
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I know people who watch you,
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want you to tell them about the biggest mistakes you made
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and the greatest successes you made.
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I tell you what, Frank.
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As soon as this election's over,
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as soon as you've past November,
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you will come on and host this show.
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And you can ask me anything you want.
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Okay, I agree with that except with one exception.
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Let me do it now and let's put it in the can.
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Okay, we can do it, let's put it in the can.
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All right, we'll arrange that and we'll tape it.
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By the way, I'll tell you something you probably don't know,
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'cause Goldwater told me this, he and Kennedy had planned
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to debate weekly to cut down the cost of campaigning
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to make it easier on travel,
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in the '64 race, they were gonna debate weekly.
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What you make of that?
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Brilliant.
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That same strategy in 1964 should happen in 2020.
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Not because it's good for any Candidate
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but we are so divided and we only collect on news
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to I affirm us, rather than inform us.
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I'm going to tweet out after your show airs
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that Donald Trump and Joe Biden
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should do the same thing in 2020.
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Goldwater told me that so I know it was true.
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Thank you very much, Frank.
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Thanks for joining us today as always.
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Thank you, Larry.
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Appreciate it.
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And thank you, audience
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for joining me on this edition of Politicking.
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Remember you can join the conversation on my Facebook page
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00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:39.240
or tweet me @KingsThings and don't forget
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to use the Politicking hashtag.
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And that's all for this edition of Politicking.
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(upbeat music)