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Ron Paul On Why Rand Has A Better Shot At White House Than He Did

PoliticKING with Larry KingJun 03 '15

Former Republican congressman & three-time presidential candidate Ron Paul tells Larry why his son Sen. Rand Paul stands a better chance at winning the presidency then he did. Plus, what he really thinks of the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement.

Ron Paul on 'PoliticKING with Larry King' Transcript

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

Posted Online: June 2nd 2015 

LARRY KING: He’s made three runs for the White House, and now his son, US Senator Rand Paul, is aiming for the Oval Office. Ron Paul, former Republican member of the House of Representatives. And one time Libertarian presidential nominee is my guest on this edition of PoliticKING.

Welcome to PoliticKING, I’m Larry King. He is always outspoken, opinionated, and one of a kind. He’s Ron Paul. He joins me from Clute, Texas. Former congressman, he’s a physician. He’s made White House bids twice as a Republican, once in 1998 as the Libertarian party’s nominee. He’s the founder of the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity, he’s an outspoken advocate for limited government, personal liberty, and low taxes, and you can catch him as he hosts the “Ron Paul Liberty Report” and you’ve seen ads for a latest thing that he’s got, about you and your finances about what this country’s going to, or coming to. We’ll get to that in a minute. What are your thoughts about your son’s success in the Senate?

RON PAUL: Well, I think it’s wonderful because I know how tough of a job he has. You know, because it’s not nice to be in a place where you really want to get along, but you have to stand your ground, and everybody’s yelling and screaming at you, you have to believe in something to do that. Too often people just capitulate, and go along to get along because that’s how you advance in Washington. So I thought he did a great job because he was dealing with something very, very important. I think he realizes the obstacles and also what might happen in the future. But he made the point very clearly. I thought he handled himself very well.

LARRY KING: Now as I understand it, we are still going to have some sort of USA Freedom Act, right? It’ll be somewhat diminished from what it is now.

RON PAUL: Well, that’s what they’re telling you and that’s why a lot of people are voting for the reform act, but actually it’s making things worse. Because, the first thing is it’s making government a partner with big business, as you know. Verizon, and AT&T, so they’re doing the government’s work. I don’t like that. I don’t like the mixture. But the other thing that is very, very bad, is that they’re cancelling, or they’re working toward the court ruling. The court ruled that the Patriot Act, the way it’s written, did not legalize this collection of data, and now what they’re doing in the reform package is making sure that the law says this. When the court ruled, they did not rule on the Fourth Amendment, they just ruled and said, well the Patriot act is pretty vague on that, it doesn’t say that you can’t do this, so they’re correcting that. So, one thing in Washington, when they have a reform of something, you cannot trust them. Because reform usually means that they’re making things a lot worse, and also you have to be very, very cautious about anything about a Freedom Report or the Patriot act. I thought that was very unpatriotic, what they were doing, but everybody after 9/11 said, oh, well we can’t vote against the Patriot act, so I think the reform act is a very, very dangerous thing to go. It’s not a slight improvement, as some people argue.

LARRY KING: It’s a dilemma to many people. He said — your son said yesterday, “I acknowledge a need for a robust intelligence agency, and for a vigilant national security. I believe we must fight terrorism. I believe we must stand strong against our enemies. But we do not need to give up who we are to defeat them. In fact, we must not. There has to be another way.” Do you agree totally with that statement?

RON PAUL: Well, probably just, very, very close to everything, but the point is very important. Why do we give up our liberties? We go to war, we send our kids over there, fight wars that are undeclared, they make no sense whatsoever, and they’re made to protect our liberties and protect our Constitution. Well, why would we do to ourselves what we’re claiming they might do to us from coming overseas. So we in this process, undermine our Constitution. It wasn’t a lack of—it wasn’t because we had too much freedom that was the problem, but now we have less freedom and the way we are fighting the war on terrorism, and I think they have made a lot of mistakes.

LARRY KING: The problem is, isn’t it, Ron, when you deal with fear, when you instill fear into people, in Hitler, in 1937, discarded warrants, and his argument was, if you have nothing to hide, what are you afraid if we don’t need a warrant to come into your house? We have troubles in this country and we should weed out the bad people. And that appealed to Germans.

RON PAUL: Well it appeals to a lot of Americans right now, I hear it all the time. It’s very scary because people, when they’re fearful, and that is a technique and a tool for those who believe in a lot more government than I do, they want to make the people fearful, but they can do this in economic policy too, well if the government doesn’t take care of you, there will be poverty, and everybody’s going to suffer. But the government has these programs, and look at how many people are suffering right now, the middle class is getting wiped out so that hasn’t worked. And of course, the fear around the world is that we have to spread America’s greatness, we have to have a program of promoting democracy around the world, and what do we end up with? A lot of constant wars if they do have an election and they don’t elect the person that we want, we go get rid of them. So I think the idea that we are exceptional and we can tell the world how to live is the wrong approach. I think we can be an exceptional nation, we have been an exceptional nation, but we should set a standard. We should practice civil liberties, we should have a good economy, and let people say, hey America is great, I wonder what they’re doing, maybe we ought to follow them. But for us to use authority and force and guns and threaten people, I claim we’ve only had two kinds of foreign policy. If other countries would do exactly as we say, we give them billions and billions of dollars. If they don’t do exactly as we tell them, we turn on them and we kill them. And I think there’s a third option, and that is a little bit of diplomacy and a little bit of common sense.

LARRY KING: Your son’s party, though, is the one that probably most favors the Patriot Act. He ran against his own party, in a sense. How will this affect him, do you think, in the Republican primaries?

RON PAUL: Well it’s a challenge, but I found out that we were able to do quite well by inviting people in who otherwise wouldn’t vote in the Republican primary. But I also believe you don’t sacrifice truth. If you believe in something, and you if you believe that the Constitution is right and the Fourth Amendment is right and privacy should be protected. You know, that individual who promotes it isn’t the problem. The problem is that too many people wimp out and say, well you know we have to be safe and we have to give up our liberties if we don’t have anything to hide. And to give more and more authority, let the government go into business with big business, and that of course is bad, and let financial situations just get worse. No, if that’s what they believe, to go along with them would be, in my mind, criminal. It would be sacrificing your whole soul to go along because you think you’re going to do better. But what we need to do in this country is make sure that the majority of the American people really want their freedoms back again. And quite frankly, I think we’d be a lot safer, there’d be a lot more peace, and this economy would be a heck of a lot better considering the trillions and trillions of dollars we spend on the war machine, military investor complex and how about that many, many trillions of dollars we spent bailing out the rich when the economic crisis hit. That can all change, we could have such a different situation, and I just sort of am sad that more people don’t wake up and listen to the truth.

LARRY KING:You think it will change?

RON PAUL: The country and the world?

LARRY KING:And the economic policy? Are you optimistic and pessimistic?

RON PAUL: On the short run, I’m very pessimistic, we have to go through the ringer. But I’m optimistic about how things are going because the undercurrent in the intellectual community, in many universities and outside the universities on the internet, liberty is once again a very precious issue, and it’s being debated, and young people are paying attention. I think it’ll take another generation. I do not think you can have this much debt and now invest and privileges that are building the economy. I think that has to be eliminated, which will be painful, but if we prolong the agony and keep bailing out people and dumping the debt on the people, this will go on for many, many years. Just like in Japan, they will not admit that there was a problem, and you have to liquate debt in a malinvestment. So I see that as a problem.

LARRY KING: This weekend, Ron, CIA director, John Brennan, said the critics of the Patriot Act were involved in political grandstanding, and crusading for ideological causes. He called the tools in the Patriot Act important to American lives. And when you expressed a threat like that, that from the CIA director in a democratic administration, it’s going to carry weight, isn’t’ it?

RON PAUL: Well, I think that’s totally misleading. He’s working on getting people fearful, and Brennan is the guy that was in charge of the torture program and the assassination program. And now he’s the chief of the CIA. So, I don’t think he’s a standard in any way, whatsoever, for defending American liberties.

LARRY KING: Your son recently stirred a lot of controversy when he asserted that the hawks in a Republican party were the blame for the rise of ISIS. He said that everything that they’ve talked about in foreign policy has been wrong for 20 years, and I know you are against the War in Iraq.

RON PAUL: Right, and I think it’s more than 20 years and I think it’s more than just Republicans, I think it’s a mentality that’s been around for many, many years, even all the way back to WWI, when we’d assumed that we had to be the policemen of the world and make the world safe for democracy. And it’s ongoing. This is why I think our problems can only be addressed with education and philosophy, because it’s not a partisan thing. I want to see a revolution, a peaceful revolution of this country, but if it’s successful, it will infiltrate Democrats and Republicans, not only Independents that liberty should be the issue, a financial system built to help the wealthy, an intrusion of civil liberty—all of these things, and we have to change the foreign policy. But it’s an intellectual thing, it’s not just the hawks in the Republican party, because quite frankly, there’s just as many hawks in the Democratic party. I mean, with our president now, who says a lot of good things about backing off from war, he has a war going on and we’re very much involved unnecessarily in Ukraine. He’s a participant in the civil war in Yemen on the Saudi side, and we’re in a lot of places around the world, so it is bipartisan, it’s philosophic, and we have to have people, once again believe in liberty, the foreign policy that defends america but is not the policemen of the world and we don’t have the right nor the facilities to throw our weight around and tell the rest of the world how to live.

KING: Do you think the national security issues will be a big part of the debate in the presidential election?

PAUL: Yes, and I think there will be a lot of demagoguing too, because people have already started it. You know, Rand suggests that there is a different way and there’s some flaws, so all the hawks come out. Democrats and Republicans will come out because they belong to the military industrial complex, they belong to the financial system, and no matter what the rhetoric is and no matter how populous they sound, yes, they’re going to come down hard on foreign policy. For some reason, it is the big issue, there’s a lot of money involved, whether it’s a foreign aid money, or whether it’s the military industrial complex. You know, if we’re building a bomber, it’s always building fifty states to make sure nobody votes against it because it’ll be bad for jobs. See that is the gross distortion of what we have to deal with.

LARRY KING: And the major thing that Dwight Eisenhower worried about when he left office. We’ll be back more with our former Congressman, Ron Paul, you always know where he stands, we’ll be back right after this.

Welcome back to PoliticKING, my guest is Ron Paul, former republican member of the US House of Representatives, one time libertarian presidential nominee, he made three runs for the White House and now his son, US Senator Rand Paul, is aiming for that office. He’s the founder of the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity, and he hosts the “Ron Paul Liberty Report.” You can get information on that on the internet. What are your concerns about the trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal?

RON PAUL: Well, I’m not for it and the main reason is it’s an illegal transfer of power, so even if there happens to be something good in it, you don’t sacrifice the Constitution. The Constitution is very clear that the Congress has the authority to regulate commerce. You can’t just say to the president, you can do whatever you want, and a matter of fact, they have agreed in this policy, that what they put into this, they can keep information secret. And it’ll be as classified, and even that should be enough to stop it. But I don’t like it because it’s thousands of pages, very complex, has to do with protectionism, even though it’s all done in the name of free trade. I’m a free trader, I believe in low tariffs, I believe that people can spend the money they want, but this has nothing to do with free trade. This has to do with managed trade, and it helps certain companies over others, and it’s a good way to get permission to put on tariffs and controls when you’re annoyed with what other companies are doing. So I don’t like the idea of another governmental body regulating things. Our government and our Constitution is very clear that we should have free trade and we should be willing to work and travel back and forth and not be an isolationist. But, to have another government body like this one that you’re proposing, is not a good idea.

LARRY KING: But they have some odd bedfellow opponents. You’ve got Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren, many members of the tea party, labor unions, and libertarians. They’re all against this.

RON PAUL: Yeah, and sometimes it’s different for different reasons too. But that’s the way politics works, is you do work with people who might have disagreements about other things, but come together on an issue. They might have a reason to be opposed to this agreement, than I do, but still, it looks like the special interest, the powerful special interest are very much in favor of this, and this is why Obama is being challenged by the progressive wing of the Democratic party, because they’re not for it.

LARRY KING: How do you rate your son’s chances, Ron? I know you’re rooting for your offspring, he’s a physician as well, he certainly speaks his mind. How do you rate his chances?

RON PAUL: Well, I think they’re good, I think they’re a lot better than mine. I think his biggest job is the thing I had to put up with, was sometimes when I came in second or even in first in some of the polling they would just ignore. I think they’re having a little bit harder of a time ignoring him, I think a Senate seat is much better, and I think he does an excellent job in presenting the case so who knows. I think he has as good as chance as the rest because in the polling that’s going on right now, he’s ranking quite well.

LARRY KING: Yeah, you can’t ignore him. Fox News is hosting the first presidential debate among the Republicans. It’s going to restrict the number of participants. Contendants have to place within the top ten in five major national polls to participate. What do you think of that.

RON PAUL: I don’t like the debate process, you know. When in ‘07 when Fox was holding the first one, about two days before was being held, and I was doing very well on the polls, they just uninvited me, which was, as far as the campaign goes, it wasn’t very helpful. So, no, I think there has to be a better way of choosing, I mean it’s sort of like, why do the candidates roll over and abide by the rules of some commercial organization that has an agenda? And Fox certainly has a very powerful agenda, so who knows the rating. I know that even on their polling after debates, I usually won all the polling, but they would say, well there’s a mistake and they would ignore it, so I don’t like the idea that somebody like Fox has sort of monopoly control of how a debate will be run.

LARRY KING: Do you think your politics hurt or help your son?

RON PAUL: It probably helps more than it hurts, but you know, because I was Independent, he’s rather Independent, if you’re working for the status quo, it provides some problems. But I think he does a much better job at overcoming that, and here he has McConnell has endorsed him for the presidency, so I would say that he’s done pretty